So where markets were trying to keep premium in the market to pay those losses, because there hasn't been losses, there's now that competition element. That dog-eat-dog. Underwriters undercutting each other to get premium is now happening. But the fact that, as you said, the world, is a very unstable place, what we do is very fluid. It's a human action, which is quite unpredictable. So it's the right time to buy now whilst the rates are softening, and also, the coverage is there.
PETER BRANSDEN: So Jake, when navigating the market in 2025. What's your advice for clients?
JAKE PAINE: It's a softening market, not just on the terrorism sabotage side, but we've seen it on the property side. So our clients hopefully have that budget to maximize on their coverage. If they don't buy a specific coverage at the moment because they might not have the budget, now is the time to look, what do we have the budget for and where can we spend it? Increasing those terrorism limits, buying those active assailant limits, an element of PV.
So on the political violence side, we're seeing clients, buy those civil war supplements to have that element of sleep at night covers in what might happen next. We've had governmental changes. We've seen things happen very quickly. This is, as I said, very fluid market, so things can change very quickly. We've got things like social media, and that can spark protests all over various states, different cities. So having those political violence supplements that cover the broad spectrum of everything, just in case something might happen.
PETER BRANSDEN: When you go into the market, Jake, and you speak to underwriters, what do you find that insurers are looking for when rating and pricing terrorism political violence coverage?
JAKE PAINE: There are various factors to that. So one of them being their aggregation. So yeah, how much aggregate can they deploy in a certain part of the world? So from a political violence and war perspective, or the more dense city areas, how much exposure can they write within that? And obviously, occupancy comes into it as well. So is it a tourist area? Is it an area open to the public? Has there been recent losses in the past for those particular occupancy types? What sublimits are in there? Are we covering a broad range of sublimits? Is there some active assailant in there? So there are various factors that they consider, but it's a broad range of things that they would consider when underwriting the risk.
PETER BRANSDEN: Jake, you're in New York this week because we've been conducting some site visits with certain clients. What have you found to be the reception from insurers from clients demonstrating proactive security measures?
JAKE PAINE: Yeah, it's been a really valuable week this week, and our client's gone to a lot of effort to show us around their sites, their buildings. And they are really phenomenal in the way they look after their buildings and the way they mitigate loss. From the outside of the building, large bollards or the way the building is set up, a vehicle can't pick up speed, things like that.
And on the inside as well, where their staff are, where their tenants are, the way they protect those. From a security standpoint, the way they have-- they communicate with the police, maybe on a day to day basis. So it's been really valuable. Our underwriters were very impressed with the way they did that. And I will be using these presentations on the next renewal for those clients to say, look, this is how our clients protect both their building and their staff. And therefore, this, from a mitigation of risk perspective, is really good.
PETER BRANSDEN: And you expect that to lead to positive results when it comes to pricing?
JAKE PAINE: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. From a broking perspective, I'll be using that. And the evidence is there. The underwriters were there. And they can see it firsthand, and that's why those meetings have been so beneficial. The fact that how well managed our clients manage their risk.
PETER BRANSDEN: Nothing putting a building to a name or--
JAKE PAINE: Yeah, exactly.
PETER BRANSDEN: --putting a building to a row in Excel.
JAKE PAINE: Yeah, exactly. And when underwriters talk about aggregation in New York, that's one thing. Yes, but let's actually think about the risk. And the risk is very well protected from those clients. They take a lot of care and they're very passionate about that. So let's take aggregation aside and actually think about the risk and underwrite on that basis.
PETER BRANSDEN: What have you found to be our client's biggest concern at the moment in terms of the precise threat that they're worried about?
JAKE PAINE: Yeah. I mean, active assailant, especially in the US, is one of those. They have a lot of systems in place. The clients that I've seen, they're developing new technology to protect against [INAUDIBLE]. They could be weapon detection systems, gun detection systems. So they're very concerned from an active settlement perspective, but they're also concerned on the terrorism side as well.
How close can someone get to the building? What vehicle can they use? Is it a 2-ton truck bomb? Is it a suicide bomber? How close can they get? So they're always looking out and looking on security cameras and things like that, just to who's down the street or-- and the same on the strikes, riots, civil commotion perspective. In New York, for example, the protests are organized. But they still can go from a nonviolent protest and it can change very quickly to a violent protest.
PETER BRANSDEN: Jake, as we wrap up, any final thoughts for clients looking to enter the terrorism political violence market?
JAKE PAINE: It's definitely the right time to enter the political violence market. With those factors that we've been talking about, having that premium budget to purchase coverage around the world and with our clients lost mitigation measures, we can review those things using our analytical tools. And that goes from various different factors. We can do blast modeling for particular buildings. We can use our global diagnostic tools to assess our client's risk, assess their exposure, and so they can understand and make an informed decision of what coverage to buy and how much coverage to buy.
PETER BRANSDEN: Jake, great to have you in New York this week. I hope you come back soon.
JAKE PAINE: Thanks very much for having me.
